Scoundrels are DPS VIABLE!

[Stornskar]

Atrayu Yung wrote:

This makes me feel a little better. So Scoundrel Jim specc'd as a healer can not match Bob the Gunslinger who is only specc'd for damage. However, if Jim the Scoundrel changes his spec for a dps tree he can match Bob the Gunslinger. This however still leaves the disadvantage in my mind of why would you bring Bob the fragile gunslinger to a PvP battle when you can bring Bill the Commando who is wearing heavy armor but can do as much damage and probably brings more utility to the table, and can take more of a beating.

This is one of the nice things about running with a good guild that will take you regardless of whether or not you are perceived to be 'underpowered' - I personally (for whatever reason) tend to take PvP-challenged, shall we say, classes. I can't explain it, but I just loved playing the Gunsligner ... so I'll be playing that and doing my best and having fun

[Sticx45]

More on topic with the conversation. The last beta weekend I played a smuggler as a scoundrel going melee spec and had a hell of a lot of fun with it. It really felt like playing a rogue in daoc/wow/etc. Had some really interesting and cool abilities. And I have to say I do like the energy mechanic. Trying to keep your energy somewhat full so that your energy regen is higher was kind of a cool mechanic as opposed to just a standard energy bar that fills over time.

On a side note, playing a scoundrel as a melee dps your heals are so sickeningly sad that they are not viable to use in a pve or pvp situation during a fight to do anything. Without points into the healing tree, the heals are horrid. So the whole argument that scoundrels can dps and still have heals is kind of moot.

I suggest anyone who holds to the pure dps should be higher dps over hybrid because hybrid's get heals argument play a scoundrel next beta weekend so they can see for them selves.

[Blind Equilibrium]

To be honest, I played a commando healer with all points in combat medic tree and the heals were still sickeningly weak. Maybe when you get to level cap and have all your talents it is better, but solo healing the harder Heroic +4 quests was impossible even with a spec'd jedi shadow tank.

This was at level 16 though, so like I said it is fully possible the low end game isn't tuned well in some areas and that it gets better as you get actual healer gear 30+ and more tools beyond the 2.25 heals (the combat support cell healing was beyond laughable and thus the 0.25) I had at 16.

[Taburz]

As to not ruin my Smuggler story I decided to roll an IA Sniper. I was lucky enough to meet up with a friend whom I played with in Warhammer and he was playing an Operative. We got about 5 solid hours of Warzones together yesterday and his DPS was pretty impressive. I had a bit of cover lag issues which hampered my DPS a bit, but he was constantly higher on the charts than me. I would say that the Scoundrel is going to be just fine in terms of DPS.

As a side note, I am even more convinced than I ever have been about playing a smuggler after this weekend. My cover lag in PvP was frustrating but it probably had more to do with my old rig than anything else.

[Sticx45]

Blind Equilibrium wrote:

To be honest, I played a commando healer with all points in combat medic tree and the heals were still sickeningly weak. Maybe when you get to level cap and have all your talents it is better, but solo healing the harder Heroic +4 quests was impossible even with a spec'd jedi shadow tank. This was at level 16 though, so like I said it is fully possible the low end game isn't tuned well in some areas and that it gets better as you get actual healer gear 30+ and more tools beyond the 2.25 heals (the combat support cell healing was beyond laughable and thus the 0.25) I had at 16.

Did you pick up the second heal Blind? Once you get your second heal the healing in the game becomes a whole new bag.

[Blind Equilibrium]

Sticx45 wrote:

Did you pick up the second heal Blind? Once you get your second heal the healing in the game becomes a whole new bag.

I did get the second heal (Advanced Medical Probe), and really it didn't change it up all that much at least for the Commando. The second heal is on a 12 second CD when talented (15 second untalented) and if you pop the 30 stack Combat Support Cell cooldown you blow through ammo in no time flat since it removes the cooldown as a kinda "oh shit" button.

I'll make a more decisive look at main spec healing at level 40 when I have the full compliment of heals (will also have the AOE kolto bomb, the reactive trauma probe shield heal, and instant "big" kolto infusion in addition to the medical probe and advanced medical probe plus being able to get itemized healer gear) to be able to get a feel for the healing.

Based on what I saw (completely subjective) the scoundrel and sage had better throughput (scoundrel through the energy regen self buff that consumes an upperhand charge and the sage due to having a static force regen regardless of % of force remaining) and was less "bursty" in their heals (scoudrel via HOTs and the sage with the bubble).

Once again, this is low level so take it with a large grain of salt, just my opinion based on what I experienced during a number of the Heroic 4+ quests, I never tried any Flaspoints so I can't speak towards those.

[Pax Eternus]

Ya, I think what people will notice in this latest patch is that the difference between specs within a class gets bigger as you level and select your gear. As a fully specced and geared tank sith juggernaut, my damage was much, much weaker than when I respecced dps and switched out crit and strength gear at level 30. However, pre-lvl 30, no big difference.

So, tank versus dps gear is very different; however, I'm still unclear if they are going to balance heal versus dps gear, or if you can just swap between them indiscriminately and keep your same gear.

[Nwahs]

Sticx45 wrote:

You will never ever end the pure dps vs hybrid dps debate. There's no point in even starting that conversation. Instead lets just talk about how sexy Sticx is, and how the rest of the guild is jealous of his stylish hood and robe.

lol awesome

[Kayllek Veran]

Nwahs Nirom wrote:

I love guild nostalgia!

[Nwahs]

AstralProjection wrote:

Aequitas Caeci wrote: They play like rogues. I was afraid they'd be pidgeonholed into healing. Melee range stuff, bleeds and poisons are your best friends. Send me a PM if you want to know more:) Yeah, I agree...that's a pretty refreshing part of this game, though it's making it hard to balance. A lot of people are under the opinion that you should just play the healing or tanking classes over DPS classes, since the difference in DPS is negligible, plus you can still fill the role of healing or tanking without changing specs.

 I can't believe it was ever true that DPS difference was negligible in tank stance?  Unless that meant that pure DPS classes weren't better than the other tank/dps classes, which they are now.