Scoundrels are DPS VIABLE!

[Aequitas Caeci]

They play like rogues. I was afraid they'd be pidgeonholed into healing. Melee range stuff, bleeds and poisons are your best friends. Send me a PM if you want to know more:)

[AstralProjection]

Aequitas Caeci wrote:

They play like rogues. I was afraid they'd be pidgeonholed into healing. Melee range stuff, bleeds and poisons are your best friends. Send me a PM if you want to know more:)

Yeah, I agree...that's a pretty refreshing part of this game, though it's making it hard to balance. A lot of people are under the opinion that you should just play the healing or tanking classes over DPS classes, since the difference in DPS is negligible, plus you can still fill the role of healing or tanking without changing specs.

[Atrayu Yung]

So wait a minute. If you spec down the healer tree for say a smuggler then your dps is just about as good as if you went down a dps tree?

[Blind Equilibrium]

I think the caveat should be stated that "while leveling" this is the case, at end game there is almost guaranteed that as DPS get geared and have their full talent trees that a fully specced dps will out pace/outlast (while doing dps) a healer or tank in end game environments. Lets not get all chicken little about low-to-mid game damage dealing capability.

[Nabetse]

Blind Equilibrium wrote:

I think the caveat should be stated that "while leveling" this is the case, at end game there is almost guaranteed that as DPS get geared and have their full talent trees that a fully specced dps will out pace/outlast (while doing dps) a healer or tank in end game environments. Lets not get all chicken little about low-to-mid game damage dealing capability.

I hope you're right Blind. If not then that's a huge failure and all might as well roll as tanks and healers only. -_-

[AstralProjection]

Yeah, Blind's Caveat is wise, though there are tons of people complaining that it doesn't change all that much at level 50 either.

I'm sure once more raids are added, and people have run several Operations the classes will feel differently.

That's kind of the issue Sticx and I were getting into in the other thread regarding my impressions of the latest build.

Basically the DPS Difference between a Hybrid class and someone fully specced DPS is pretty small in practical applications in PVP. In PVE where mobs are less intelligent it's not as much of an issue, but still there.

Right now there's not much reason to play a full DPS spec, short of loving the AC that you're playing for other reasons (e.g. I want to wield 2 lightsabers).

Person A in DPS Spec does 110% of Average DPS, no Healing. Heal Specced Person B Does 100% of Average DPS, plus 100% Healing Capability.

To me that's unbalanced, but there are lots of people who have no problem with it (mostly the ones playing Hybrid classes, whereas the ones playing pure DPS are complaining).

Either way the game is awesome, and PVP and PVE have both been much more enjoyable than TOR's most recent predecessor, WoW.

[Pax Eternus]

WARNING!

An above post may have made it seem as if speccing tank or speccing healer would give only a little less dps than speccing in a dps tree; however, this is NOT the case!

The argument made was why would you choose a pure dps advanced class, such as sentinel, or gunslinger, since choosing scoundrel or guardian would give you access to just as much dps in a dps scoundrel tree as in any of the gunslinger trees PLUS you get to respec healer if you want to do some healing.

Example:
Bob specs gunslinger and does 500 dps in any of his three dps tree choices. He can only ever dps and will only ever do 500 dps, no matter how he specs.

Jim specs scoundrel and has two dps trees and one healing tree. His two dps trees do 500 dps, but his healing tree only does 200 dps.

Why would anyone spec gunslinger? Well, because it looks badass and you get to do that 500 dps at a longer range and in a different way then the scoundrel does his 500 dps.

[Crox Rava]

Pax Eternus wrote:

WARNING! An above post may have made it seem as if speccing tank or speccing healer would give only a little less dps than speccing in a dps tree; however, this is NOT the case! The argument made was why would you choose a pure dps advanced class, such as sentinel, or gunslinger, since choosing scoundrel or guardian would give you access to just as much dps in a dps scoundrel tree as in any of the gunslinger trees PLUS you get to respec healer if you want to do some healing. Example: Bob specs gunslinger and does 500 dps in any of his three dps tree choices. He can only ever dps and will only ever do 500 dps, no matter how he specs. Jim specs scoundrel and has two dps trees and one healing tree. His two dps trees do 500 dps, but his healing tree only does 200 dps. Why would anyone spec gunslinger? Well, because it looks badass and you get to do that 500 dps at a longer range and in a different way then the scoundrel does his 500 dps.

The issue here is that Jim the Scoundrel in his melee DPS spec still has heals, while poor Bob is left with none.

[Zoron Ror]

Crox_Rava wrote:

The issue here is that Jim the Scoundrel in his melee DPS spec still has heals, while poor Bob is left with none.

and this little Jawa went wee weee weeee all the way home!

If you're pure DPS don't you have more abilities to use during your rotation though?

[Atrayu Yung]

Pax Eternus wrote:

WARNING! An above post may have made it seem as if speccing tank or speccing healer would give only a little less dps than speccing in a dps tree; however, this is NOT the case! The argument made was why would you choose a pure dps advanced class, such as sentinel, or gunslinger, since choosing scoundrel or guardian would give you access to just as much dps in a dps scoundrel tree as in any of the gunslinger trees PLUS you get to respec healer if you want to do some healing. Example: Bob specs gunslinger and does 500 dps in any of his three dps tree choices. He can only ever dps and will only ever do 500 dps, no matter how he specs. Jim specs scoundrel and has two dps trees and one healing tree. His two dps trees do 500 dps, but his healing tree only does 200 dps. Why would anyone spec gunslinger? Well, because it looks badass and you get to do that 500 dps at a longer range and in a different way then the scoundrel does his 500 dps.

This makes me feel a little better. So Scoundrel Jim specc'd as a healer can not match Bob the Gunslinger who is only specc'd for damage. However, if Jim the Scoundrel changes his spec for a dps tree he can match Bob the Gunslinger.

This however still leaves the disadvantage in my mind of why would you bring Bob the fragile gunslinger to a PvP battle when you can bring Bill the Commando who is wearing heavy armor but can do as much damage and probably brings more utility to the table, and can take more of a beating.

[AstralProjection]

Yeah, I don't envy the guys responsible for "balancing" this game. As we all know that is an endless process in these games.

Sorry if my post was misleading.

For the record, there are lots of people saying even heal specced players don't do much less DPS. That's what I was referring to.

At lower levels that's the case...as Blind pointed out, once you're at 50, which is 99% of the time you're going to spend in the game in the long term anyway, and fully talented and geared those differences are going to be more pronounced.

[Amorl]

I actually am glad to hear this, as I would like to level a healing alt. Running around on my tank main while leveling and doing good damage seems GREAT. no slowly killing mobs.

[Blind Equilibrium]

Atrayu Yung wrote:

This however still leaves the disadvantage in my mind of why would you bring Bob the fragile gunslinger to a PvP battle when you can bring Bill the Commando who is wearing heavy armor but can do as much damage and probably brings more utility to the table, and can take more of a beating.

There is only a 5% difference in armor between medium and heavy, and there are tools that a smuggler has that if used properly have the potential to more than make up for that.

[Sticx45]

You will never ever end the pure dps vs hybrid dps debate. There's no point in even starting that conversation. Instead lets just talk about how sexy Sticx is, and how the rest of the guild is jealous of his stylish hood and robe.

[Lord Marvel]

Sticx45 wrote:

You will never ever end the pure dps vs hybrid dps debate. There's no point in even starting that conversation. Instead lets just talk about how sexy Sticx is, and how the rest of the guild is jealous of his stylish hood and robe.

Though I don`t envy him, just because his hand is on fire :P


Anyway, I sure hope they will balance everything as much as possible, and at launch we will have all great experience